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DavidGarfinkelSecondPaper 9 - 08 Jun 2010 - Main.DavidGarfinkel
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| META TOPICPARENT | name="SecondPaper" |
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| | | The New Competition and Hierarchy Created by Law School | |
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< | Upon entering college, most students move away from the society that they originated from. For most 18 year olds in the upper-middle class, college is a first true experiment in freedom. Students are whisked away from the societal competition and hierarchy of their parents and enter a new society made entirely of members of the leisure class with limited financial capabilities. In general, humanity is competitive and hierarchical by nature. These competitive elements inevitably seep in and take on some form as the college student strives to establish his place relative to his peers. | >
> | Upon entering college, most students move away from the society that they originated from. For most teenagers, college is the first true experiment in freedom. Students are whisked away from the societal competition and hierarchy of their parents and enter a new society made entirely of members of the leisure class with limited financial capabilities. In general, humanity is competitive and hierarchical by nature. These competitive elements inevitably seep in and take on some form as the college student strives to establish his place relative to his peers. | | | | |
<
< | This competitive process takes an accelerated form with the beginning of law school application process. The student (many of which will start law school relatively soon after graduating from college) begins to see the contours of law school societal hierarchies and that there are tiers, even within the leisure class. The law school name and rank become the first true: rankings play a predominant role in which school most students will choose. In this process, perhaps,, the individual encounters his first Geffen good: as rank and price of law schools rise, demand rises top. | >
> | This competitive process takes an accelerated form with the beginning of the law school application process. The student (many of which will start law school relatively soon after graduating from college) begins to see the contours of law school's societal hierarchies and that there are tiers, even within the leisure class. The law school name and rank become the first true: rankings play a predominant role in which school most students will choose. In this process, perhaps, the individual encounters his first Geffen good: as rank and price of law schools rises, demand rises alongside it. | | | | |
<
< | Competition and hierarchy are particularly visible and evident from the first day of classes. Columbia Law School, for instance, creates elements of competition and hierarchy through a rigid grading curve and doling out of titles, like Stone and Kent. Unlike college grading schemes, first-year grading speaks little to a student's objective performance. Grades do not reflect individual achievement but represent individual achievement relative to others. An “A” does not signify “excellent” so much as it signifies “better than everyone else.” The main implication of such a grading system are clear: my classmates are my competition. First semester grades end up becoming the go-to commodity and the lengths students go to try get top marks is similar to the efforts investment workers put into attaining material objects. In some sense, there is a similar fetishization of grades that one sees in certain material objects. | >
> | Competition and hierarchy are particularly visible and evident from the first day of classes. Columbia Law School, for instance, creates elements of competition and hierarchy through a rigid grading curve and doling out of titles, like Stone and Kent. Even at orientation, an elaborate ceremony is conducted to reward those with significant accomplishments before starting school. And unlike college grading schemes, first-year grading speaks little to a student's objective performance. Grades do not reflect individual achievement but represent individual achievement relative to others. An “A” does not signify “excellent” so much as it signifies “better than everyone else.” The main implication of such a grading system are clear: my classmates are my competition. First semester grades end up becoming the go-to commodity and the lengths students go to try get top marks is similar to the efforts of the leisure class to "keep up with the Jones." In some sense, there is a similar fetishization of grades that one sees in certain material objects. | | | The hierarchical elements of law school that force conspicuous consumption run even deeper. Students are asked to apply to a variety of programs and positions with limited seats, such as moot courts, fellowships, and board positions. And this process is continually renewed through new arenas, from summer job searches to clinic/journal applications—especially law review. Such positions may have little relevance in practice. But, in a system based on evaluative relativity, even the most asinine of distinctions and titles can serve to distinguish the law student from his or her peers.
Pawning Our License as the beginning of a new conspicuous consumption | |
<
< | The problem the law student faces in her attempt to attain these titles and objects of status is the realization that they do not carry over after law school, let alone after the first year or two of law school. Being president of a student organization has little lasting impact on one's practice. Students, then, rely on EIP—the gateway into a competition with a more lasting impact, as students compete to get into top law firms. And again, this decision is significantly colored by the ranking of the individual firm, with sights set on achieving the coveted title of associate at Sullivan or Wachtell, etc. | >
> | The problem the law student faces in her attempt to attain these titles and objects of status is the realization that they do not carry over after law school. Being president of a student organization has little lasting impact on one's practice. Students, then, rely on EIP—the gateway into a competition with a more lasting impact, as students compete to get into top law firms. And again, this decision is significantly colored by the ranking of the individual firm, with sights set on achieving the coveted title of associate at Sullivan or Wachtell, etc. | | | | |
<
< | For the prestige of working at a highly ranked firm, the individual is willing to sacrifice a higher amount of time, happiness, and personal worth. While the lawyer may be reduced to a line on a business card, it is an important sounding line. The status symbol of the law firm replaces all of the previous adornments. And in Veblen terms, the prestige translates into waste and is another form of conspicuous consumption. The title does not reflect the quality or importance of the work, but will serve to maintain and define social status within the community. In sum, the firm becomes the object that determines a the student's spot in the social hierarchy. By the beginning of the third year, most law students have transitioned from the old social hierarchies of college and law school to the hierarchy of the leisure class of America, the point one arrives at after graduation. And as the lawyer becomes more entrenched in his new position in the hierarchy, it becomes harder to regain the pawned license. The individual is forced into a cycle of new competitions and new titles that will define his status and result in the material aspect of conspicuous consumption that was central to Veblen’s thesis.
This is my final edited version. I tried to preserve the spirit of the essay. Looking back, I don't like some of my edits. Word count is around 900 now, so, there is room for expanding a point or two | | | \ No newline at end of file | |
>
> | For the prestige of working at a highly ranked firm, the individual is willing to sacrifice a higher amount of time, happiness, and personal worth. While the lawyer may be reduced to a line on a business card, it is an important sounding line. The status symbol of the law firm replaces all of the previous adornments. And in Veblen terms, the prestige translates into waste and is another form of conspicuous consumption. The title does not reflect the quality or importance of the work, but will serve to maintain and define social status within the community. In sum, the firm becomes the object that determines the student's spot in the social hierarchy. By the beginning of the third year, most law students have transitioned from the old social hierarchies of college and law school to the hierarchy of the leisure class of America, the point one arrives at after graduation. And as the lawyer becomes more entrenched in his new position in the hierarchy, it becomes harder to regain the pawned license. The individual is forced into a cycle of new competitions and new titles that will define his status and result in the material aspect of conspicuous consumption that was central to Veblen’s thesis. | | | \ No newline at end of file |
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DavidGarfinkelSecondPaper 8 - 24 Apr 2010 - Main.MatthewZorn
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| META TOPICPARENT | name="SecondPaper" |
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| | | Conspicuous Consumption as a Useful Metaphor | |
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< | In The Theory of the Leisure Class, Veblen discusses how the competitive and hierarchal nature of society often creates conspicuous consumption. He contends that conspicuous consumption necessitates demonstrating status in the form of visual indicators. Veblen's conspicuous consumption can serve as a useful framework for understanding part of the law student's decision making process and why that process often results in so many students “pawning off their licenses.” This essay intends to go beyond the mere material aspect of conspicuous consumption, which is obviously prevalent throughout American society and exists within the law school. What interests me more are the different shapes conspicuous consumption takes upon entering law school and what processes shape this new form that leads to the eventual decision to pawn our licenses. | >
> | In The Theory of the Leisure Class, Veblen discusses how the competitive and hierarchal nature of society often creates conspicuous consumption. He contends that conspicuous consumption necessitates demonstrating status in the form of visual indicators. Veblen's conspicuous consumption can serve as a useful tool in understanding part of the law student's experience and why so many law student's “pawn off their licenses” to law firms. This essay intends to go beyond the mere material aspect of conspicuous consumption, which is obviously prevalent throughout American society and exists within the law school. Instead, I will look at how this conspicuous consumption, hierarchy, and competition surrounds the law student and encourages the student to pawn their license. | | | The New Competition and Hierarchy Created by Law School | |
<
< | Upon entering college, students are suddenly displaced from the traditional society they originated from. For most 18 year olds in the upper-middle class, college is their first true experiment in freedom. Students are whisked away from the societal competition and hierarchy of their parents. Part of this results from students no longer being part of a society divided between an industrial class and a leisure class, but instead being in a new society made entirely of the leisure class with limited financial capabilities. In many aspects, humanity is competitive and hierarchical by nature. These competitive elements inevitably seep in and take on some form as the college student strives to establish his place relative to his peers. However, this competitive process takes an accelerated form with the beginning of law school application process. The student (many of which will start law school relatively soon after graduating from college) begins to realize that society is even more hierarchal and that there are tiers within the leisure class. And the first true commodity the student has as an indicator of his future position is the law school name: rankings play a predominant role in which school most students will choose (in some respects, the individual encounters his first Geffen good). | >
> | Upon entering college, most students move away from the society that they originated from. For most 18 year olds in the upper-middle class, college is a first true experiment in freedom. Students are whisked away from the societal competition and hierarchy of their parents and enter a new society made entirely of members of the leisure class with limited financial capabilities. In general, humanity is competitive and hierarchical by nature. These competitive elements inevitably seep in and take on some form as the college student strives to establish his place relative to his peers. | | | | |
<
< | Competition and hierarchy are reinforced upon starting law school. This is where law school in many ways differentiates itself from many other types of graduate institutions. | >
> | This competitive process takes an accelerated form with the beginning of law school application process. The student (many of which will start law school relatively soon after graduating from college) begins to see the contours of law school societal hierarchies and that there are tiers, even within the leisure class. The law school name and rank become the first true: rankings play a predominant role in which school most students will choose. In this process, perhaps,, the individual encounters his first Geffen good: as rank and price of law schools rise, demand rises top. | | | | |
<
< |
I don't think this assertion is adequately supported (or even true). My roommate is in the poetry program and it is quite different in how it grades its students. Nevertheless, there is still competition—it is simply manifesting itself in less recognizable forms. They battle to publish, get on a journal, teachers attention, etc. But of course, poetry is but one graduate instution. I think this sentence absolutely falls apart once you look into other, less artsy, professional or graduate programs. However, I don't think this is a bad point, as long as it is slightly tweaked. | >
> | Competition and hierarchy are particularly visible and evident from the first day of classes. Columbia Law School, for instance, creates elements of competition and hierarchy through a rigid grading curve and doling out of titles, like Stone and Kent. Unlike college grading schemes, first-year grading speaks little to a student's objective performance. Grades do not reflect individual achievement but represent individual achievement relative to others. An “A” does not signify “excellent” so much as it signifies “better than everyone else.” The main implication of such a grading system are clear: my classmates are my competition. First semester grades end up becoming the go-to commodity and the lengths students go to try get top marks is similar to the efforts investment workers put into attaining material objects. In some sense, there is a similar fetishization of grades that one sees in certain material objects. | | | | |
<
< | The next sentence gets to where I think this needs to go: the curve. I think there are many points to be made about how the curve and how it ties into Veblen. To me, it is a deceiving cover reflecting not how hard productive one is or how good of an attorney that person will be, but rather reflects superficial qualities—if it reflects anything at all! And, the curve (the hierarchy) creates waste because it tells you nothing about (a) how well people are being taught or (b) how well people are learning. Just some thoughts.
| >
> | The hierarchical elements of law school that force conspicuous consumption run even deeper. Students are asked to apply to a variety of programs and positions with limited seats, such as moot courts, fellowships, and board positions. And this process is continually renewed through new arenas, from summer job searches to clinic/journal applications—especially law review. Such positions may have little relevance in practice. But, in a system based on evaluative relativity, even the most asinine of distinctions and titles can serve to distinguish the law student from his or her peers. | | | | |
<
< | Concerning the curve, I agree with your statements. The reason I avoided going into a deeper discussion about the curve was because I felt that it has been discussed by others, and did want to take a broader look at what occurs in law school. | | | | |
<
< | Columbia Law School, for instance, creates elements of competition and hierarchy through its grading curve and doling out of titles, like Stone and Kent. But the hierarchical elements of law school run even deeper. Students enter the law school with a concept of hierarchy due to the fact that their acceptance was based significantly on how they did in comparison to everyone else on a single test.
I'm going to repeat my objection here, only because most enter college with a test score. Almost all American post-secondary instutions have test scores. My high school program had test scores! Law school may place an unhealthy reliance on a test score. I just don't think this is a strong point.
True. Before college, I had gone to private school my whole life, so I had to take standardized tests to get into middle and high school, in addition to the SAT for college. For me, though difficult to explain, the LSAT and the process felt different. Part of this may have to do with context, as we are older and focusing in on our career path. Part of it may also have to do with the much stronger reliance Law Schools place on the LSAT.
And following the beginning of classes, students are asked to apply to a variety of programs and positions with limited seats, such as moot courts, fellowships, and board positions. The first day the school creates an atmosphere that stratifies students, and to ensure a sense of security in position, like the members of the leisure class Veblen discusses, students who cannot demonstrate material wealth, for financial and cultural reasons, must look for other “commodities” to serve as a demonstration of their position in the micro-society of law school. First semester grades end up become the go-to commodity and the lengths students go to try get top marks is similar to the efforts investment people put into attaining material objects. In some sense, there is a similar fetishization of grades that one sees in certain material objects. And this process is continually renewed through new arenas, from summer job searches to clinic/journal applications—especially law review. | | | Pawning Our License as the beginning of a new conspicuous consumption | |
<
< | The problem the law student faces in her attempt to attain these titles and objects of status is the realization that they do not carry over after law school, let alone after the first year or two of law school.
I still have problems with this paragraphs for two reasons. (1) It just is not true. As I mentioned Stone and Kent carry over. Maybe extracurriculars don't but maybe they do. Either way, there is no evidence to support this (and no way you can get it). (2) The more important issue is that these titles might be meaningless from the start. Certainly a debatable proposition, but, many of these titles are quite useless ornaments on the law school resume. (3) Again, I think you are treading shallow water here—you fail to differentiate law school from any other institution. This seems like a problem with American education in general. Specifically, I think this is more of a problem at the high school/college level.
So instead EIP becomes the gateway into a competition with a more lasting impact, as students compete to get into top law firms. Again, this decision is significantly colored by the ranking of the individual firm, with sights set on achieving the coveted title of associate at Sullivan or Wachtell, etc.
Unless you are attached to this line, I think it should go. For me, I know it is false. I also know a couple classmates who care more about location, size, etc. than ranking. Which sort of goes to rebut your next point about it being a Geffen good. I think the line could stay, but it needs to be qualified in a heavy manner, which is, that people end up working at the firm for prestige vs. what would make them truly happy in life. My subsequent edits reflect this.
The individual is willing to sacrifice a higher amount of time, happiness, and personal worth to get into a big firm. The lawyer is reduced to a line on a business card. And for the prestige the lawyer creates waste, making less per hour than other potential opportunities. The status symbol of the law firm gives the student something to hold onto. The firm distinguishes his place in the social hierarchy with more obvious effect than grades and titles. So by the beginning of the third year, most law students have transitioned from the old social hierarchies of college and law school to the hierarchy of the leisure class of America, the point one arrives at after graduation. And as the lawyer becomes more entrenched in his new position in the hierarchy, it becomes harder to regain the pawned license. The individual is forced into new competitions that will define his status and actively takes part in the material aspect of conspicuous consumption that was central to Veblen’s thesis.
My edits are interspersed throughout. I see no need to post the original as it can be accesses through the history function. | >
> | The problem the law student faces in her attempt to attain these titles and objects of status is the realization that they do not carry over after law school, let alone after the first year or two of law school. Being president of a student organization has little lasting impact on one's practice. Students, then, rely on EIP—the gateway into a competition with a more lasting impact, as students compete to get into top law firms. And again, this decision is significantly colored by the ranking of the individual firm, with sights set on achieving the coveted title of associate at Sullivan or Wachtell, etc. | | | | |
<
< | In my opinion, there are three directions you can go with this. The first is preserving the general structure and just fine tuning the weak points of the argument (the realistic option with exams approaching). Beyond that, there are two possibilities: focus a little on the curve. I think that there are powerful implications of a clinging to normalized bell curve that speaks powerfully to your point. I didn't add them, because I think that goes beyond the job of an editor. But one does not have to think long about some of the sinister implications of a forced curve: it can mask bad teaching, it differentiates on meaningless criteria, and it does not tell you anything about the disparity of student quality. I think some of these ideas can be rolled into your paper and some can't. Third, it is just my opinion that this paper could be better off losing Veblen and instead focusing more on hierarchical / class structures. My favorite part of the paper deals with how you talk about going from one hierarchy to the next. It sort of conjured up an image in my mind where in high school we all were on a large totem pole and then the top 1/3 was shaved off the top and shuffled up on another totem pole whereby the top 1/3...etc. I see many directions you can take this, all of which look promising. I think it is just a question of time and how well I am interpreting your feelings on the issue. | >
> | For the prestige of working at a highly ranked firm, the individual is willing to sacrifice a higher amount of time, happiness, and personal worth. While the lawyer may be reduced to a line on a business card, it is an important sounding line. The status symbol of the law firm replaces all of the previous adornments. And in Veblen terms, the prestige translates into waste and is another form of conspicuous consumption. The title does not reflect the quality or importance of the work, but will serve to maintain and define social status within the community. In sum, the firm becomes the object that determines a the student's spot in the social hierarchy. By the beginning of the third year, most law students have transitioned from the old social hierarchies of college and law school to the hierarchy of the leisure class of America, the point one arrives at after graduation. And as the lawyer becomes more entrenched in his new position in the hierarchy, it becomes harder to regain the pawned license. The individual is forced into a cycle of new competitions and new titles that will define his status and result in the material aspect of conspicuous consumption that was central to Veblen’s thesis. | | | | |
<
< | To address some general issues. I realize more explicitly now that I made some over generalizations, in terms of comparisons to other educational institutions and students in general. Would probably take out statements making reference to other graduate schools. But feel like my points about hierarchy and competition are much stronger in law school than in previous settings, possibly b/c of our adult status and the career oriented aspect for most students (i.e. most students have solely been students before coming). And in terms of EIP, there are exceptions. I did not mean to cover every students. But feel like it addresses a very strong force in how most students think in some respect. Though may have taken the metaphor too far. My hope was to try to apply the idea and process of conspicuous consumption to law school in general. Issues concerning the curve, while relevant, felt too narrow and also preempted by others, so was hoping for some sense of originality in my paper. Questionable if it worked. Since as editors we have to actually rewrite the papers we are assigned, the direction I am hoping for is to demonstrate the extremely strong sense of hierarchy and competition that colors much of the law school process and translates into early career choices. Good luck with the edit. | | | \ No newline at end of file | |
>
> | This is my final edited version. I tried to preserve the spirit of the essay. Looking back, I don't like some of my edits. Word count is around 900 now, so, there is room for expanding a point or two | | | \ No newline at end of file |
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DavidGarfinkelSecondPaper 7 - 23 Apr 2010 - Main.DavidGarfinkel
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| META TOPICPARENT | name="SecondPaper" |
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| | | The next sentence gets to where I think this needs to go: the curve. I think there are many points to be made about how the curve and how it ties into Veblen. To me, it is a deceiving cover reflecting not how hard productive one is or how good of an attorney that person will be, but rather reflects superficial qualities—if it reflects anything at all! And, the curve (the hierarchy) creates waste because it tells you nothing about (a) how well people are being taught or (b) how well people are learning. Just some thoughts.
| |
>
> | Concerning the curve, I agree with your statements. The reason I avoided going into a deeper discussion about the curve was because I felt that it has been discussed by others, and did want to take a broader look at what occurs in law school. | | | Columbia Law School, for instance, creates elements of competition and hierarchy through its grading curve and doling out of titles, like Stone and Kent. But the hierarchical elements of law school run even deeper. Students enter the law school with a concept of hierarchy due to the fact that their acceptance was based significantly on how they did in comparison to everyone else on a single test.
I'm going to repeat my objection here, only because most enter college with a test score. Almost all American post-secondary instutions have test scores. My high school program had test scores! Law school may place an unhealthy reliance on a test score. I just don't think this is a strong point.
| |
>
> | True. Before college, I had gone to private school my whole life, so I had to take standardized tests to get into middle and high school, in addition to the SAT for college. For me, though difficult to explain, the LSAT and the process felt different. Part of this may have to do with context, as we are older and focusing in on our career path. Part of it may also have to do with the much stronger reliance Law Schools place on the LSAT. | | | And following the beginning of classes, students are asked to apply to a variety of programs and positions with limited seats, such as moot courts, fellowships, and board positions. The first day the school creates an atmosphere that stratifies students, and to ensure a sense of security in position, like the members of the leisure class Veblen discusses, students who cannot demonstrate material wealth, for financial and cultural reasons, must look for other “commodities” to serve as a demonstration of their position in the micro-society of law school. First semester grades end up become the go-to commodity and the lengths students go to try get top marks is similar to the efforts investment people put into attaining material objects. In some sense, there is a similar fetishization of grades that one sees in certain material objects. And this process is continually renewed through new arenas, from summer job searches to clinic/journal applications—especially law review.
Pawning Our License as the beginning of a new conspicuous consumption | | | My edits are interspersed throughout. I see no need to post the original as it can be accesses through the history function.
In my opinion, there are three directions you can go with this. The first is preserving the general structure and just fine tuning the weak points of the argument (the realistic option with exams approaching). Beyond that, there are two possibilities: focus a little on the curve. I think that there are powerful implications of a clinging to normalized bell curve that speaks powerfully to your point. I didn't add them, because I think that goes beyond the job of an editor. But one does not have to think long about some of the sinister implications of a forced curve: it can mask bad teaching, it differentiates on meaningless criteria, and it does not tell you anything about the disparity of student quality. I think some of these ideas can be rolled into your paper and some can't. Third, it is just my opinion that this paper could be better off losing Veblen and instead focusing more on hierarchical / class structures. My favorite part of the paper deals with how you talk about going from one hierarchy to the next. It sort of conjured up an image in my mind where in high school we all were on a large totem pole and then the top 1/3 was shaved off the top and shuffled up on another totem pole whereby the top 1/3...etc. I see many directions you can take this, all of which look promising. I think it is just a question of time and how well I am interpreting your feelings on the issue. | |
>
> | To address some general issues. I realize more explicitly now that I made some over generalizations, in terms of comparisons to other educational institutions and students in general. Would probably take out statements making reference to other graduate schools. But feel like my points about hierarchy and competition are much stronger in law school than in previous settings, possibly b/c of our adult status and the career oriented aspect for most students (i.e. most students have solely been students before coming). And in terms of EIP, there are exceptions. I did not mean to cover every students. But feel like it addresses a very strong force in how most students think in some respect. Though may have taken the metaphor too far. My hope was to try to apply the idea and process of conspicuous consumption to law school in general. Issues concerning the curve, while relevant, felt too narrow and also preempted by others, so was hoping for some sense of originality in my paper. Questionable if it worked. Since as editors we have to actually rewrite the papers we are assigned, the direction I am hoping for is to demonstrate the extremely strong sense of hierarchy and competition that colors much of the law school process and translates into early career choices. Good luck with the edit. | | | \ No newline at end of file |
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DavidGarfinkelSecondPaper 6 - 23 Apr 2010 - Main.MatthewZorn
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| META TOPICPARENT | name="SecondPaper" |
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| | | Conspicuous Consumption as a Useful Metaphor | |
<
< | Veblen in his book, Theory of the Leisure Class, discusses how conspicuous consumption results partly from the competitive and hierarchal nature of society, and the need of the individual to be able to provide some sort of visual indicators demonstrating his status to others. The concept of conspicuous consumption can serve as a useful metaphor for understanding part of the decision making process of law students that result in so many “pawning off their license.” This is meant to go beyond the mere material aspect of conspicuous consumption, which is obviously prevalent throughout American society and exists within the law school. However, it is less useful to discuss that in the law school context with the relative lack of wealth disparity among students and the limit on the ability of students attain significant material demonstration when burdened by huge debt. What is more interesting is the different shape conspicuous consumption takes upon entering law school and what external processes shape this new form that leads to the eventual decision to pawn our license. | >
> | In The Theory of the Leisure Class, Veblen discusses how the competitive and hierarchal nature of society often creates conspicuous consumption. He contends that conspicuous consumption necessitates demonstrating status in the form of visual indicators. Veblen's conspicuous consumption can serve as a useful framework for understanding part of the law student's decision making process and why that process often results in so many students “pawning off their licenses.” This essay intends to go beyond the mere material aspect of conspicuous consumption, which is obviously prevalent throughout American society and exists within the law school. What interests me more are the different shapes conspicuous consumption takes upon entering law school and what processes shape this new form that leads to the eventual decision to pawn our licenses. | | | The New Competition and Hierarchy Created by Law School | |
<
< | Upon entering college, students are suddenly displaced from the traditional society they originated from. Along with this displacement, students are taken away from the societal competition and hierarchy that defines the society of their parents. Part of this results from students no longer being part of a society divided between an industrial class and a leisure class, but instead being in a new society made entirely of the leisure class with limited financial capabilities. Humanity is competitive and hierarchical by nature, so these elements will of course seep in and take on some form as the individual strives to establish his place relative to his peers. However, this process takes an accelerate form with the beginning of law school application. Here, the student (most of which will start law school relatively soon after graduating from college) begins to realize that society is even more hierarchal than initially believed, that there are tiers within the leisure class. And the first true commodity the student has as an indicator of his future position is the law school name. Thus, we have a law school application process significantly defined by how schools are ranked against each other, which plays a predominant role in which school most students will choose (in some respects, the individual encounters his first Geffen good). | >
> | Upon entering college, students are suddenly displaced from the traditional society they originated from. For most 18 year olds in the upper-middle class, college is their first true experiment in freedom. Students are whisked away from the societal competition and hierarchy of their parents. Part of this results from students no longer being part of a society divided between an industrial class and a leisure class, but instead being in a new society made entirely of the leisure class with limited financial capabilities. In many aspects, humanity is competitive and hierarchical by nature. These competitive elements inevitably seep in and take on some form as the college student strives to establish his place relative to his peers. However, this competitive process takes an accelerated form with the beginning of law school application process. The student (many of which will start law school relatively soon after graduating from college) begins to realize that society is even more hierarchal and that there are tiers within the leisure class. And the first true commodity the student has as an indicator of his future position is the law school name: rankings play a predominant role in which school most students will choose (in some respects, the individual encounters his first Geffen good). | | | | |
<
< | The new competitive and hierarchical society that the student is only being introduced to is suddenly being reinforced upon starting law school. This is where law school in many ways differentiates itself from many other types of graduate institutions. Law School of course creates elements of competition and hierarchy through its grading curve and doling out of titles, like Stone and Kent.
Law School...or Columbia Law School?
Was referring to Law Schools in general, though more specifically those in the same range as Columbia. | >
> | Competition and hierarchy are reinforced upon starting law school. This is where law school in many ways differentiates itself from many other types of graduate institutions. | | | | |
<
< | But such elements run deeper than that. Students enter the law school with a concept of hierarchy due to the fact that their acceptance was based significantly on how they did in comparison to everyone else on a single test.
To me, this is dubious and based more on fiction than fact. For one, any concept of a hierarchy based on a test score would require knowing the test scores of their "colleagues." I know, maybe, a handful of test scores, including my own, and I do not think any hierarchy or concept of hierarchy formed based on that knowledge.
My concept of hierarchy that I was trying to convey was a more general concept, rather than specifically within the school. I agree with your point about knowing other scores. My point was that the student is instilled with the idea of how the world is ordered in general, rather than just simply within the individual law class.
And following the beginning of classes, students are asked to apply to a variety of programs and positions with limited seats, such as moot courts, fellowships, and board positions.
Is this unique to law school? I don't go to business school or medical school. I do agree, however, that these endeavors are competitive, and, the focus they achieve is sort of odd. We go to a professional school where we are learning a profession and yet an unhealthy amount of focus goes to moot court competitions and fellowships that will be dubiously helpful to most of us.
I believe it is unique to law school. Med school at the beginning seems solely focused on the studies, students seem literally be 9-5 students or longer. I don't know specifically, but the sense I got from friends at other professional schools seems quite different. | >
> |
I don't think this assertion is adequately supported (or even true). My roommate is in the poetry program and it is quite different in how it grades its students. Nevertheless, there is still competition—it is simply manifesting itself in less recognizable forms. They battle to publish, get on a journal, teachers attention, etc. But of course, poetry is but one graduate instution. I think this sentence absolutely falls apart once you look into other, less artsy, professional or graduate programs. However, I don't think this is a bad point, as long as it is slightly tweaked. | | | | |
<
< | So from the first day the school creates an atmosphere that stratifies students on some level, and to ensure some sense of security in position, much like the members of the leisure class Veblen discusses, students who cannot for financial and cultural reasons demonstrate material wealth must look for other commodities to serve as a demonstration of their position in the micro-society of law school. First semester grades end up taking part of this role, and the lengths students go to try get top marks is similar to the investment people put into attaining material objects. In some sense, there is a similar fetishization of grades that one sees in certain material objects. And this process is continually renewed through new arenas, from summer job search to clinic/journal applications (law review serves a dominant role in this).
To paraphrase Eben on one of my past papers, the metaphrand is being stretched here. | >
> | The next sentence gets to where I think this needs to go: the curve. I think there are many points to be made about how the curve and how it ties into Veblen. To me, it is a deceiving cover reflecting not how hard productive one is or how good of an attorney that person will be, but rather reflects superficial qualities—if it reflects anything at all! And, the curve (the hierarchy) creates waste because it tells you nothing about (a) how well people are being taught or (b) how well people are learning. Just some thoughts. | | | | |
>
> | Columbia Law School, for instance, creates elements of competition and hierarchy through its grading curve and doling out of titles, like Stone and Kent. But the hierarchical elements of law school run even deeper. Students enter the law school with a concept of hierarchy due to the fact that their acceptance was based significantly on how they did in comparison to everyone else on a single test.
I'm going to repeat my objection here, only because most enter college with a test score. Almost all American post-secondary instutions have test scores. My high school program had test scores! Law school may place an unhealthy reliance on a test score. I just don't think this is a strong point.
And following the beginning of classes, students are asked to apply to a variety of programs and positions with limited seats, such as moot courts, fellowships, and board positions. The first day the school creates an atmosphere that stratifies students, and to ensure a sense of security in position, like the members of the leisure class Veblen discusses, students who cannot demonstrate material wealth, for financial and cultural reasons, must look for other “commodities” to serve as a demonstration of their position in the micro-society of law school. First semester grades end up become the go-to commodity and the lengths students go to try get top marks is similar to the efforts investment people put into attaining material objects. In some sense, there is a similar fetishization of grades that one sees in certain material objects. And this process is continually renewed through new arenas, from summer job searches to clinic/journal applications—especially law review. | | | Pawning Our License as the beginning of a new conspicuous consumption
The problem the law student faces in her attempt to attain these titles and objects of status is the realization that they do not carry over after law school, let alone after the first year or two of law school. | |
<
< | Stone and Kent do not carry over after law school? Clerkships? (I agree, most extracurricular activities, moot court competitions, etc. will not. But I would not bunch them all together).
You are correct. Stone and Kent do carry over. Was referring to extracurricular and others. Clerkships occur after law school, and seem to be increasingly dependent (for circuit court and Supreme Court) on working some time before the clerkship, usually at a firm. But I should have been more specific.
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> |
I still have problems with this paragraphs for two reasons. (1) It just is not true. As I mentioned Stone and Kent carry over. Maybe extracurriculars don't but maybe they do. Either way, there is no evidence to support this (and no way you can get it). (2) The more important issue is that these titles might be meaningless from the start. Certainly a debatable proposition, but, many of these titles are quite useless ornaments on the law school resume. (3) Again, I think you are treading shallow water here—you fail to differentiate law school from any other institution. This seems like a problem with American education in general. Specifically, I think this is more of a problem at the high school/college level. | | | So instead EIP becomes the gateway into a competition with a more lasting impact, as students compete to get into top law firms. Again, this decision is significantly colored by the ranking of the individual firm, with sights set on achieving the coveted title of associate at Sullivan or Wachtell, etc. | |
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< | For some of us, it will be just to pay off the debt. I couldn't give half a shit about Sullivan or Wachtell.
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< | And the law firm in effect represents a new Geffen good, where the individual is willing to sacrifice a higher amount of time, happiness, and personal worth to get into a top firm. And we have the problem of waste, where the amount of money the individual is making per hour is comparatively low to other potential opportunities. But the law firm becomes a status symbol the student can hold onto that distinguishes his place in the social hierarchy with more obvious effect than grades and titles. So by the beginning of the third year, most law students have started to remove themselves from the old social hierarchy of college and law school to defining their place in the leisure class of America that they will become part of upon graduation. And as they become more entrenched in their new position, it becomes harder to regain the pawned license as the individual is forced into new competitions that will define his status and actively takes part in the material aspect of conspicuous consumption that was central to Veblen’s thesis. | >
> |
Unless you are attached to this line, I think it should go. For me, I know it is false. I also know a couple classmates who care more about location, size, etc. than ranking. Which sort of goes to rebut your next point about it being a Geffen good. I think the line could stay, but it needs to be qualified in a heavy manner, which is, that people end up working at the firm for prestige vs. what would make them truly happy in life. My subsequent edits reflect this. | | | | |
<
< | Just some initial comments for myself -mz
Hope my comments will be helpful to you -dg
| >
> | The individual is willing to sacrifice a higher amount of time, happiness, and personal worth to get into a big firm. The lawyer is reduced to a line on a business card. And for the prestige the lawyer creates waste, making less per hour than other potential opportunities. The status symbol of the law firm gives the student something to hold onto. The firm distinguishes his place in the social hierarchy with more obvious effect than grades and titles. So by the beginning of the third year, most law students have transitioned from the old social hierarchies of college and law school to the hierarchy of the leisure class of America, the point one arrives at after graduation. And as the lawyer becomes more entrenched in his new position in the hierarchy, it becomes harder to regain the pawned license. The individual is forced into new competitions that will define his status and actively takes part in the material aspect of conspicuous consumption that was central to Veblen’s thesis.
My edits are interspersed throughout. I see no need to post the original as it can be accesses through the history function.
In my opinion, there are three directions you can go with this. The first is preserving the general structure and just fine tuning the weak points of the argument (the realistic option with exams approaching). Beyond that, there are two possibilities: focus a little on the curve. I think that there are powerful implications of a clinging to normalized bell curve that speaks powerfully to your point. I didn't add them, because I think that goes beyond the job of an editor. But one does not have to think long about some of the sinister implications of a forced curve: it can mask bad teaching, it differentiates on meaningless criteria, and it does not tell you anything about the disparity of student quality. I think some of these ideas can be rolled into your paper and some can't. Third, it is just my opinion that this paper could be better off losing Veblen and instead focusing more on hierarchical / class structures. My favorite part of the paper deals with how you talk about going from one hierarchy to the next. It sort of conjured up an image in my mind where in high school we all were on a large totem pole and then the top 1/3 was shaved off the top and shuffled up on another totem pole whereby the top 1/3...etc. I see many directions you can take this, all of which look promising. I think it is just a question of time and how well I am interpreting your feelings on the issue. |
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DavidGarfinkelSecondPaper 5 - 21 Apr 2010 - Main.DavidGarfinkel
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| | | The new competitive and hierarchical society that the student is only being introduced to is suddenly being reinforced upon starting law school. This is where law school in many ways differentiates itself from many other types of graduate institutions. Law School of course creates elements of competition and hierarchy through its grading curve and doling out of titles, like Stone and Kent.
Law School...or Columbia Law School? | |
>
> | Was referring to Law Schools in general, though more specifically those in the same range as Columbia. | | | But such elements run deeper than that. Students enter the law school with a concept of hierarchy due to the fact that their acceptance was based significantly on how they did in comparison to everyone else on a single test.
To me, this is dubious and based more on fiction than fact. For one, any concept of a hierarchy based on a test score would require knowing the test scores of their "colleagues." I know, maybe, a handful of test scores, including my own, and I do not think any hierarchy or concept of hierarchy formed based on that knowledge.
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>
> | My concept of hierarchy that I was trying to convey was a more general concept, rather than specifically within the school. I agree with your point about knowing other scores. My point was that the student is instilled with the idea of how the world is ordered in general, rather than just simply within the individual law class.
| | | And following the beginning of classes, students are asked to apply to a variety of programs and positions with limited seats, such as moot courts, fellowships, and board positions.
Is this unique to law school? I don't go to business school or medical school. I do agree, however, that these endeavors are competitive, and, the focus they achieve is sort of odd. We go to a professional school where we are learning a profession and yet an unhealthy amount of focus goes to moot court competitions and fellowships that will be dubiously helpful to most of us.
| |
>
> | I believe it is unique to law school. Med school at the beginning seems solely focused on the studies, students seem literally be 9-5 students or longer. I don't know specifically, but the sense I got from friends at other professional schools seems quite different. | | | So from the first day the school creates an atmosphere that stratifies students on some level, and to ensure some sense of security in position, much like the members of the leisure class Veblen discusses, students who cannot for financial and cultural reasons demonstrate material wealth must look for other commodities to serve as a demonstration of their position in the micro-society of law school. First semester grades end up taking part of this role, and the lengths students go to try get top marks is similar to the investment people put into attaining material objects. In some sense, there is a similar fetishization of grades that one sees in certain material objects. And this process is continually renewed through new arenas, from summer job search to clinic/journal applications (law review serves a dominant role in this).
To paraphrase Eben on one of my past papers, the metaphrand is being stretched here. | | | The problem the law student faces in her attempt to attain these titles and objects of status is the realization that they do not carry over after law school, let alone after the first year or two of law school.
Stone and Kent do not carry over after law school? Clerkships? (I agree, most extracurricular activities, moot court competitions, etc. will not. But I would not bunch them all together).
| |
>
> | You are correct. Stone and Kent do carry over. Was referring to extracurricular and others. Clerkships occur after law school, and seem to be increasingly dependent (for circuit court and Supreme Court) on working some time before the clerkship, usually at a firm. But I should have been more specific.
| | | So instead EIP becomes the gateway into a competition with a more lasting impact, as students compete to get into top law firms. Again, this decision is significantly colored by the ranking of the individual firm, with sights set on achieving the coveted title of associate at Sullivan or Wachtell, etc.
For some of us, it will be just to pay off the debt. I couldn't give half a shit about Sullivan or Wachtell.
| | | Just some initial comments for myself -mz
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>
> | Hope my comments will be helpful to you -dg
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DavidGarfinkelSecondPaper 4 - 21 Apr 2010 - Main.MatthewZorn
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| | | Upon entering college, students are suddenly displaced from the traditional society they originated from. Along with this displacement, students are taken away from the societal competition and hierarchy that defines the society of their parents. Part of this results from students no longer being part of a society divided between an industrial class and a leisure class, but instead being in a new society made entirely of the leisure class with limited financial capabilities. Humanity is competitive and hierarchical by nature, so these elements will of course seep in and take on some form as the individual strives to establish his place relative to his peers. However, this process takes an accelerate form with the beginning of law school application. Here, the student (most of which will start law school relatively soon after graduating from college) begins to realize that society is even more hierarchal than initially believed, that there are tiers within the leisure class. And the first true commodity the student has as an indicator of his future position is the law school name. Thus, we have a law school application process significantly defined by how schools are ranked against each other, which plays a predominant role in which school most students will choose (in some respects, the individual encounters his first Geffen good). | |
<
< | The new competitive and hierarchical society that the student is only being introduced to is suddenly being reinforced upon starting law school. This is where law school in many ways differentiates itself from many other types of graduate institutions. Law School of course creates elements of competition and hierarchy through its grading curve and doling out of titles, like Stone and Kent. But such elements run deeper than that. Students enter the law school with a concept of hierarchy due to the fact that their acceptance was based significantly on how they did in comparison to everyone else on a single test. And following the beginning of classes, students are asked to apply to a variety of programs and positions with limited seats, such as moot courts, fellowships, and board positions. So from the first day the school creates an atmosphere that stratifies students on some level, and to ensure some sense of security in position, much like the members of the leisure class Veblen discusses, students who cannot for financial and cultural reasons demonstrate material wealth must look for other commodities to serve as a demonstration of their position in the micro-society of law school. First semester grades end up taking part of this role, and the lengths students go to try get top marks is similar to the investment people put into attaining material objects. In some sense, there is a similar fetishization of grades that one sees in certain material objects. And this process is continually renewed through new arenas, from summer job search to clinic/journal applications (law review serves a dominant role in this). | >
> | The new competitive and hierarchical society that the student is only being introduced to is suddenly being reinforced upon starting law school. This is where law school in many ways differentiates itself from many other types of graduate institutions. Law School of course creates elements of competition and hierarchy through its grading curve and doling out of titles, like Stone and Kent.
Law School...or Columbia Law School?
But such elements run deeper than that. Students enter the law school with a concept of hierarchy due to the fact that their acceptance was based significantly on how they did in comparison to everyone else on a single test.
To me, this is dubious and based more on fiction than fact. For one, any concept of a hierarchy based on a test score would require knowing the test scores of their "colleagues." I know, maybe, a handful of test scores, including my own, and I do not think any hierarchy or concept of hierarchy formed based on that knowledge.
And following the beginning of classes, students are asked to apply to a variety of programs and positions with limited seats, such as moot courts, fellowships, and board positions.
Is this unique to law school? I don't go to business school or medical school. I do agree, however, that these endeavors are competitive, and, the focus they achieve is sort of odd. We go to a professional school where we are learning a profession and yet an unhealthy amount of focus goes to moot court competitions and fellowships that will be dubiously helpful to most of us.
So from the first day the school creates an atmosphere that stratifies students on some level, and to ensure some sense of security in position, much like the members of the leisure class Veblen discusses, students who cannot for financial and cultural reasons demonstrate material wealth must look for other commodities to serve as a demonstration of their position in the micro-society of law school. First semester grades end up taking part of this role, and the lengths students go to try get top marks is similar to the investment people put into attaining material objects. In some sense, there is a similar fetishization of grades that one sees in certain material objects. And this process is continually renewed through new arenas, from summer job search to clinic/journal applications (law review serves a dominant role in this).
To paraphrase Eben on one of my past papers, the metaphrand is being stretched here.
| | | Pawning Our License as the beginning of a new conspicuous consumption | |
<
< | The problem the law student faces in her attempt to attain these titles and objects of status is the realization that they do not carry over after law school, let alone after the first year or two of law school. So instead EIP becomes the gateway into a competition with a more lasting impact, as students compete to get into top law firms. Again, this decision is significantly colored by the ranking of the individual firm, with sights set on achieving the coveted title of associate at Sullivan or Wachtell, etc. And the law firm in effect represents a new Geffen good, where the individual is willing to sacrifice a higher amount of time, happiness, and personal worth to get into a top firm. And we have the problem of waste, where the amount of money the individual is making per hour is comparatively low to other potential opportunities. But the law firm becomes a status symbol the student can hold onto that distinguishes his place in the social hierarchy with more obvious effect than grades and titles. So by the beginning of the third year, most law students have started to remove themselves from the old social hierarchy of college and law school to defining their place in the leisure class of America that they will become part of upon graduation. And as they become more entrenched in their new position, it becomes harder to regained the pawned license as the individual is forced into new competitions that will define his status and actively takes part in the material aspect of conspicuous consumption that was central to Veblen’s thesis. | >
> | The problem the law student faces in her attempt to attain these titles and objects of status is the realization that they do not carry over after law school, let alone after the first year or two of law school.
Stone and Kent do not carry over after law school? Clerkships? (I agree, most extracurricular activities, moot court competitions, etc. will not. But I would not bunch them all together).
So instead EIP becomes the gateway into a competition with a more lasting impact, as students compete to get into top law firms. Again, this decision is significantly colored by the ranking of the individual firm, with sights set on achieving the coveted title of associate at Sullivan or Wachtell, etc.
For some of us, it will be just to pay off the debt. I couldn't give half a shit about Sullivan or Wachtell.
And the law firm in effect represents a new Geffen good, where the individual is willing to sacrifice a higher amount of time, happiness, and personal worth to get into a top firm. And we have the problem of waste, where the amount of money the individual is making per hour is comparatively low to other potential opportunities. But the law firm becomes a status symbol the student can hold onto that distinguishes his place in the social hierarchy with more obvious effect than grades and titles. So by the beginning of the third year, most law students have started to remove themselves from the old social hierarchy of college and law school to defining their place in the leisure class of America that they will become part of upon graduation. And as they become more entrenched in their new position, it becomes harder to regain the pawned license as the individual is forced into new competitions that will define his status and actively takes part in the material aspect of conspicuous consumption that was central to Veblen’s thesis.
Just some initial comments for myself -mz
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DavidGarfinkelSecondPaper 3 - 17 Apr 2010 - Main.DavidGarfinkel
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| | | The New Competition and Hierarchy Created by Law School | |
>
> | Upon entering college, students are suddenly displaced from the traditional society they originated from. Along with this displacement, students are taken away from the societal competition and hierarchy that defines the society of their parents. Part of this results from students no longer being part of a society divided between an industrial class and a leisure class, but instead being in a new society made entirely of the leisure class with limited financial capabilities. Humanity is competitive and hierarchical by nature, so these elements will of course seep in and take on some form as the individual strives to establish his place relative to his peers. However, this process takes an accelerate form with the beginning of law school application. Here, the student (most of which will start law school relatively soon after graduating from college) begins to realize that society is even more hierarchal than initially believed, that there are tiers within the leisure class. And the first true commodity the student has as an indicator of his future position is the law school name. Thus, we have a law school application process significantly defined by how schools are ranked against each other, which plays a predominant role in which school most students will choose (in some respects, the individual encounters his first Geffen good). | | | | |
<
< | Subsub 1 | >
> | The new competitive and hierarchical society that the student is only being introduced to is suddenly being reinforced upon starting law school. This is where law school in many ways differentiates itself from many other types of graduate institutions. Law School of course creates elements of competition and hierarchy through its grading curve and doling out of titles, like Stone and Kent. But such elements run deeper than that. Students enter the law school with a concept of hierarchy due to the fact that their acceptance was based significantly on how they did in comparison to everyone else on a single test. And following the beginning of classes, students are asked to apply to a variety of programs and positions with limited seats, such as moot courts, fellowships, and board positions. So from the first day the school creates an atmosphere that stratifies students on some level, and to ensure some sense of security in position, much like the members of the leisure class Veblen discusses, students who cannot for financial and cultural reasons demonstrate material wealth must look for other commodities to serve as a demonstration of their position in the micro-society of law school. First semester grades end up taking part of this role, and the lengths students go to try get top marks is similar to the investment people put into attaining material objects. In some sense, there is a similar fetishization of grades that one sees in certain material objects. And this process is continually renewed through new arenas, from summer job search to clinic/journal applications (law review serves a dominant role in this). | | | | |
<
< | Subsection B | >
> | Pawning Our License as the beginning of a new conspicuous consumption | | | | |
<
< | Subsub 1
Subsub 2
Section II
Subsection A
Subsection B | >
> | The problem the law student faces in her attempt to attain these titles and objects of status is the realization that they do not carry over after law school, let alone after the first year or two of law school. So instead EIP becomes the gateway into a competition with a more lasting impact, as students compete to get into top law firms. Again, this decision is significantly colored by the ranking of the individual firm, with sights set on achieving the coveted title of associate at Sullivan or Wachtell, etc. And the law firm in effect represents a new Geffen good, where the individual is willing to sacrifice a higher amount of time, happiness, and personal worth to get into a top firm. And we have the problem of waste, where the amount of money the individual is making per hour is comparatively low to other potential opportunities. But the law firm becomes a status symbol the student can hold onto that distinguishes his place in the social hierarchy with more obvious effect than grades and titles. So by the beginning of the third year, most law students have started to remove themselves from the old social hierarchy of college and law school to defining their place in the leisure class of America that they will become part of upon graduation. And as they become more entrenched in their new position, it becomes harder to regained the pawned license as the individual is forced into new competitions that will define his status and actively takes part in the material aspect of conspicuous consumption that was central to Veblen’s thesis. |
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DavidGarfinkelSecondPaper 2 - 16 Apr 2010 - Main.DavidGarfinkel
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< | It is strongly recommended that you include your outline in the body of your essay by using the outline as section titles. The headings below are there to remind you how section and subsection titles are formatted. | | | | |
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> | Conspicuous Consumption and the Law Student | | | -- By DavidGarfinkel - 16 Apr 2010 | |
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> | Conspicuous Consumption as a Useful Metaphor | | | | |
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> | Veblen in his book, Theory of the Leisure Class, discusses how conspicuous consumption results partly from the competitive and hierarchal nature of society, and the need of the individual to be able to provide some sort of visual indicators demonstrating his status to others. The concept of conspicuous consumption can serve as a useful metaphor for understanding part of the decision making process of law students that result in so many “pawning off their license.” This is meant to go beyond the mere material aspect of conspicuous consumption, which is obviously prevalent throughout American society and exists within the law school. However, it is less useful to discuss that in the law school context with the relative lack of wealth disparity among students and the limit on the ability of students attain significant material demonstration when burdened by huge debt. What is more interesting is the different shape conspicuous consumption takes upon entering law school and what external processes shape this new form that leads to the eventual decision to pawn our license.
The New Competition and Hierarchy Created by Law School | | |
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DavidGarfinkelSecondPaper 1 - 16 Apr 2010 - Main.DavidGarfinkel
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It is strongly recommended that you include your outline in the body of your essay by using the outline as section titles. The headings below are there to remind you how section and subsection titles are formatted.
Paper Title
-- By DavidGarfinkel - 16 Apr 2010
Section I
Subsection A
Subsub 1
Subsection B
Subsub 1
Subsub 2
Section II
Subsection A
Subsection B |
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