Law in Contemporary Society

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InjusticeUSMilitaryVsJohnBrown 27 - 27 Mar 2012 - Main.WilliamDavidWilliams
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 Due to the lack of understanding regarding John Brown's actions, I ask the question:

If the government sanctioned it, would that make it right?

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 What I think the real lessons from these wars are that justice is very complicated. By reducing complex systems to "the good" and "the bad", we may ultimately learn less about them and be worse off. While wars are an obvious example of this, I think even simpler acts often have consequences that most people do not analyze. I found the discussion earlier in this thread about being a socially conscious consumer an interesting example of this. I do not think many people who are socially conscious purchasers consider the totality of the consequences of their decisions. By buying fair trade products, it's possible to exclude farmers whose land is not productive enough to earn adequate wages. Buying organic may exclude small farmers who cannot afford certification. Preventing deforestation may take away sources of income from developing countries. What about the earlier discussion of giving land back to the remnants of native tribes that have had injustices committed against them? It certainly sells well as justice, but what is it we want to accomplish and how does it achieve that? My point is not that all these practices are wrong, but that the world is complicated and that analysis and creativity are needed to solve these problems in an effective manner. Another example I find really interesting is the backlash among some intellectuals, like in this essay, against the Kony 2012 campaign. I think it's important to make sure we really know what changes we believe in and make sure those are the ones we are accomplishing, not just use "justice" as a form of easy self-gratification, when what is actually occurring is much more complex.

-- DanielKetani - 26 Mar 2012

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Implicit in your analysis is agreeing with the U.S. attack on Libya. While I understand that there are many byproducts of actions that are taken, the point of this thread is to understand that facts that are told to you by the government (e.g. Gaddafi killing thousands justifies his overthrow and murder) are in many cases not true. The problem occurs when we automatically accept them (as in accepting the values of a corporation) as part of our worldview/our identity leading people to be "enslaved" or part of the Matrix.

You said, "Should we have not prevented Gaddafi from massacring thousands because oil interests played a role in the decision?"

What if the U.S. massacred thousands or hired "rebels" to start the civil war in Libya to massacre thousands? Wars are filled with spies, as we have seen in WWI and WWII, and the U.S. has created problems on myriad occasions in the past [scientific intelligence studies based on skull size, "War on Drugs," industrial prison complex] for us to be able to infer the likelihood that the US creates war. Understanding this casting will lead to liberation.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread691464/pg1 [Gaddafi is not deliberately trying to kill civilians]

Gaddafi was not perfect, but the U.S. has sanctioned the killing or eradication of exponentially more people than he ever did. Plus, for instance, he gave several benefits to people, some of the U.S. would never think of doing...

1. All the newly weds people of Libya used to get about 50,000 dollars from Government to lead a very happy life.

2. Home is the basic right of every citizen of Libya.

3. There was no electricity bill in Libiya. Electricity was free in Libya.

4. No interest loan for the people of Libya according to Law. Gaddafi was against interest since interest is forbidden in Islam.

5. Gaddafi has increased the literacy rate from 25% to 83%. Education expenses in Government universities are free in Libya.

6. Medical expenses in Government hospitals was free in Libya.

7. The price of the patrol was 0.14 cents in Libya. Yes we all know Libya has got good petroleum resources. But the price seems to be too low. Isn't it?

8. When Libyan citizen wants to buy a car, Government used to subsidized 50% of the price of the car. 50%? sounds great!

9. A huge bread used to cost only 15 cents in Libya.

10. The GDP per capita of Libya is very high. Over 15,000 us dollars. Purchasing power was very high compare to the GDP.

11. The economy of Libya was improving rapidly. In 2010 it had 10% growth. It has not external debts. It also has the reserves amount of 150+ billion dollars.

12. Unemployment fees were given from the government until the person finds a Job.

13. A Libyan mother used to get 5000 us dollars for giving birth a child.

You say that it's complex, but that's indeed the irony. It appears complex, but to the people, groups, or countries casting these dramatizations, it actually is rather simple.

The U.S. does whatever is necessarily for its own self-interest, especially in foreign policy, while convincing citizens that it has "their best interests at heart." People are conditioned to develop the worldview/identity of the U.S., and thus never learn to think for themselves or question the facts/consider that what the media has taught them may not be true.

Daniel, there are some notions of universal justice that should not be disputed (e.g. slavery). They still may be, such as when people in class didn't agree with the ending of slavery through self-defense unless "government" sanctioned, but this thought process does not give true credence of what it means to love one another. It is not right what the U.S. has done to people in this country or abroad. Not that every single practice was wrong, but we cannot continue to let frequent casting/dramatizations cause massive killings/dumbing down of society without understanding what is being done and having the courage to do something about it. I don't claim to know everything, and I know people disagree, but is important to fight for the correct facts and then understand why there are some universal truths that we cannot "afford" to not stand up for.


Revision 27r27 - 27 Mar 2012 - 17:00:51 - WilliamDavidWilliams
Revision 26r26 - 26 Mar 2012 - 03:48:04 - DanielKetani
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