I don't know really what "white comfort" is as a concept. But I value my own integrity and right not to be discriminated against. And while the speaker may have thought that the policy was primarily race-based that he was discussing, that doesn't justify in my opinion calling all white people "greedy" or oppressive. He didn't put it as eloquently as race "being the salient issue at play". He told me I was greedy and oppressive. Needless to say, he had never met me. He didn't know my passions, my commitments. I was now greedy and oppressive in that room.

I don't think there's anything at all wrong, as I've been saying every post, with saying that policies are racist and favor white people in this country. That's just not what was said.

(Sorry for specifically addressing posts to people. I just want to address particular statements and play them out. I know all of you posting and love and respect you muchly!)

-- KippMueller - 09 Apr 2012

Thanks Shefali,

Totally agree with most everything... in particular your last paragraph. But I don't think it's at odds at all with what I'm saying. I'm pretty sure you don't either. But just to be sure I'm not advocating to replace discussions of race with class. I agree that they're inextricably linked and that both should be addressed.

I do empathize with all stereotyping. And I, like anyone else, don't want to be told what I believe or excluded from anything based on the color of my skin... it's an awful, devastating feeling.

But you say to feel empathy towards others stereotyped instead of feeling alienated. Why not both?

No one should be judged, excluded or alienated for the color of their skin, plain and simple. Doesn't matter what color you are. I never chose the color of my skin.

And, anticipating the tangential discussion about white privilege which benefits me regardless of whether I chose my color or not, I get that. We all agree that exists. No need to go down that road.

But I personally unequivocally do not believe that justifies alienation. It just means that institutionalized white privilege is something to be cognizant of and something to be resisted.

And I don't believe it's unjustified for me to feel a sense of alienation just because I'm white. I don't think you do either, Shefali, but I just sense from the thread generally a resistance to it and I want to address it outright.

-- KippMueller - 09 Apr 2012

Such “overly reductive” statements like the ones the speaker made are likely to incite feelings of white guilt, and make white people less willing to join in dialogues that even relate to issues of racism (such as classicism). And it is very important to include all people in these discussions. Because of white privilege, white people have the opportunity to ignore issues of race that surround them, since they are not directly confronted by them. I remember being shocked at hearing people discuss our “post-racial” society soon after Obama was elected across my predominately white college campus. By making general, incorrect statements about white people being “greedy” and “oppressive,” instead of describing the numerous historical factors that have made white people the privileged race in our society, such a speaker is likely to make people less willing to talk about race at all.

I do believe, however, that classism is inextricably linked to racism. The way the country has been structured since its creation has caused this. Though it is possible to speak strictly about classism in certain contexts, I believed that in most other contexts this would lead to a very incomplete discussion about the issue. Of course other factors such as gender and education also have strong roles in classism, and should not be forgotten. But it cannot be ignored that in our society whiteness has great advantage, especially in regards to socioeconomics. For example, “studies suggest that working-class whites are typically better off in terms of assets and net worth than even middle-class blacks with higher incomes, due to past familial advantages” (Tim Wise, White Like Me, viii). By acknowledging such facts, we are not ignoring the existence of classism, but better understanding its many components.

-- KippMueller - 09 Apr 2012

My reading of Kipp's anecdote wasn't that he went to a talk about policies that hurt the poor and was upset that there was too much race talk. Rather, he justifiably felt alienated by comments about "the greed of the white man" and that "white people are an oppressive people." This wasn't a productive discussion about white privilege. These are comments that assume that all white people, because they are white, are the sole cause of classism and they have no part in helping to remedy classist practices. I'm not saying that we shouldn't question well-meaning people. I'm just saying that promoting the racial divide with divisive rhetoric hinders movements for social justice. Power relations rest upon both race and class hierarchies and alliance across race and class would strengthen challenges against these hierarchies.

-- MichelleLuo - 09 Apr 2012