|
RealityVsUnreality 12 - 19 Feb 2009 - Main.AaronShepard
|
| |
| META TOPICPARENT | name="WebPreferences" |
|---|
When Prof. Moglen was discussing the wide chasm separating between what we know about the penal system and what really transpires behind prison doors, it occurred to me that this divergence between reality and unreality certainly isn't unqiue to the criminal "justice" system, and that the failure to bridge that gap often leads to a distorted understanding of human behavior in other contexts as well. In the case of the penal system, we witness some alarming absurdities: the father who thinks jail time will "shape up" his son, the politician who pads his resume with convictions, the prosecutor whose political ties pervert her duties as a public servant, and a community which thinks itself safer despite rising rates of incarceration and crime. These symptoms are no doubt worrisome, but I believe the same social forces operate in other cases as well. | | | What everyone has written so far is interesting, but if we are talking about reality, I can't help but think that what is missing from this discussion is a further acknowledgment of the homeless families we don't see on campuses, streets and under bridges in the community. Those of the sheer bad luck sort are more prominent than many realize or care to discuss. It seems that one of the problems of drawing a line between the reality of the problem and the misconceptions we have about groups of people stems from the very fact that the average person draws conclusions based on what is seen: we see the beggar sitting with the sign and change cup, we see the individuals curled up on grates in the hope of staying warm. What we don't see is the family who faces hard times, loses the apartment and ends up bouncing from shelter to shelter while trying to get life back to the way it used to be. Many of you expressed unease and dissociation with the homeless community. There's no question the cycle of poverty is continuous and makes it difficult to pinpoint a root, but I wonder if the reality we seek and the cognitive framework in which we approach this discussion change once we realize that the the one in search of shelter could be you or me someday.
-- UchechiAmadi - 19 Feb 2009 | |
>
> |
Lauren - I think you put too much faith in people if you don't believe there will be a free rider problem. If you give people something for free, they have no incentive to work for it. Clearly this wouldn't apply to everyone, but certainly the advantage to a capitalist system is that there is a tremendous incentive to work hard. I'm not saying socialism wouldn't have alternative benefits, but just that the innate issue of free riding cannot be allocated away.
How much have we gained by wars? Personally, I think we gained quite a bit in World War II. Incarceration? Well, I'm certainly glad the Ted Bundys of world are off the streets. These are extreme examples of course, but I think that goes to show that there is a moderation in everything. All wars are not just or useful, but there is a reason to have a significant military budget. There are many people in prison who, for whatever reason, don't belong there, but there is also a reason to fund the institution (although American prisons are tremendously underfunded).
I guess the main gist of the allocation idea is, coldly, how to maximize our resources. Furthermore, where do you draw the line between helping segments of society, and depriving personal responsibility? We seem to agree on the need to strike the balance. This was something that Obama tried to do throughout the campaign, and because of his unique position, I think it was very effective. There is unfortunately little political capital in helping many in need of aid, but perhaps this will change.
Uchechi - I lived in D.C. for a while, and there was a great program called Street Sense, where homeless citizens would sell newspapers written and edited by other homeless citizens. While I wish there were more things like this, to help give people a leg up, I still believe that the problems mentioned by others in this thread would be significant. Of course, I like everyone else in this thread, am just speculating.
-- AaronShepard - 19 Feb 2009 | | |
\ No newline at end of file |
|
|
RealityVsUnreality 11 - 19 Feb 2009 - Main.UchechiAmadi
|
| |
| META TOPICPARENT | name="WebPreferences" |
|---|
When Prof. Moglen was discussing the wide chasm separating between what we know about the penal system and what really transpires behind prison doors, it occurred to me that this divergence between reality and unreality certainly isn't unqiue to the criminal "justice" system, and that the failure to bridge that gap often leads to a distorted understanding of human behavior in other contexts as well. In the case of the penal system, we witness some alarming absurdities: the father who thinks jail time will "shape up" his son, the politician who pads his resume with convictions, the prosecutor whose political ties pervert her duties as a public servant, and a community which thinks itself safer despite rising rates of incarceration and crime. These symptoms are no doubt worrisome, but I believe the same social forces operate in other cases as well. | | | -- LaurenRosenberg - 19 Feb 2009 | |
<
< | What everyone has written so far is interesting, but if we are talking about reality, I can't help but think that what is missing from this discussion is a further acknowledgment of the homeless families we don't see on campuses, streets and under bridges in the community. Those of the sheer bad luck sort are more prominent than many realize or care to discuss. It seems that one of the problems of drawing a line between the reality of the problem and the misconceptions we have about groups of people stems from the very fact that the average person draws conclusions based on what is seen: we see the beggar sitting with the sign and change cup, we see the individuals curled up on grates in the hope of staying warm. What we don't see is the family who faces hard times, loses the apartment and ends up bouncing from shelter to shelter while trying to get life back to the way it used to be. Many of you reflected unease and dissociation with the homeless community. There's no question the cycle of poverty is continuous and makes it difficult to pinpoint a root, but I wonder if the reality we seek and the cognitive framework in which we approach this discussion change once we realize that the the one in search of shelter could be you or me someday. | >
> | What everyone has written so far is interesting, but if we are talking about reality, I can't help but think that what is missing from this discussion is a further acknowledgment of the homeless families we don't see on campuses, streets and under bridges in the community. Those of the sheer bad luck sort are more prominent than many realize or care to discuss. It seems that one of the problems of drawing a line between the reality of the problem and the misconceptions we have about groups of people stems from the very fact that the average person draws conclusions based on what is seen: we see the beggar sitting with the sign and change cup, we see the individuals curled up on grates in the hope of staying warm. What we don't see is the family who faces hard times, loses the apartment and ends up bouncing from shelter to shelter while trying to get life back to the way it used to be. Many of you expressed unease and dissociation with the homeless community. There's no question the cycle of poverty is continuous and makes it difficult to pinpoint a root, but I wonder if the reality we seek and the cognitive framework in which we approach this discussion change once we realize that the the one in search of shelter could be you or me someday. | | | -- UchechiAmadi - 19 Feb 2009
\ No newline at end of file |
|
|
RealityVsUnreality 10 - 19 Feb 2009 - Main.AaronShepard
|
| |
| META TOPICPARENT | name="WebPreferences" |
|---|
When Prof. Moglen was discussing the wide chasm separating between what we know about the penal system and what really transpires behind prison doors, it occurred to me that this divergence between reality and unreality certainly isn't unqiue to the criminal "justice" system, and that the failure to bridge that gap often leads to a distorted understanding of human behavior in other contexts as well. In the case of the penal system, we witness some alarming absurdities: the father who thinks jail time will "shape up" his son, the politician who pads his resume with convictions, the prosecutor whose political ties pervert her duties as a public servant, and a community which thinks itself safer despite rising rates of incarceration and crime. These symptoms are no doubt worrisome, but I believe the same social forces operate in other cases as well. |
|
|
RealityVsUnreality 9 - 19 Feb 2009 - Main.UchechiAmadi
|
| |
| META TOPICPARENT | name="WebPreferences" |
|---|
When Prof. Moglen was discussing the wide chasm separating between what we know about the penal system and what really transpires behind prison doors, it occurred to me that this divergence between reality and unreality certainly isn't unqiue to the criminal "justice" system, and that the failure to bridge that gap often leads to a distorted understanding of human behavior in other contexts as well. In the case of the penal system, we witness some alarming absurdities: the father who thinks jail time will "shape up" his son, the politician who pads his resume with convictions, the prosecutor whose political ties pervert her duties as a public servant, and a community which thinks itself safer despite rising rates of incarceration and crime. These symptoms are no doubt worrisome, but I believe the same social forces operate in other cases as well. | | | I agree that homelessness is not necessarily a result of "laziness" or "indifference" but I'd like to add that a large percentage of America's homeless people have psychiatric illnesses, such as schizophrenia (not to be confused with Multiple Personality Disorder), bipolar disorder, and a whole host of other psychotic illnesses. Many of these individuals have no idea that they are suffering from psychiatric disorders and certainly no idea that medication can vastly improve their lives. One way to solve the homelessness problem is by trying to fix the root of the problem by providing better health care and better homeless facilities that will allow patients to discuss their situations with a psychiatrist.
-- LaurenRosenberg - 19 Feb 2009 | |
>
> |
What everyone has written so far is interesting, but if we are talking about reality, I can't help but think that what is missing from this discussion is a further acknowledgment of the homeless families we don't see on campuses, streets and under bridges in the community. Those of the sheer bad luck sort are more prominent than many realize or care to discuss. It seems that one of the problems of drawing a line between the reality of the problem and the misconceptions we have about groups of people stems from the very fact that the average person draws conclusions based on what is seen: we see the beggar sitting with the sign and change cup, we see the individuals curled up on grates in the hope of staying warm. What we don't see is the family who faces hard times, loses the apartment and ends up bouncing from shelter to shelter while trying to get life back to the way it used to be. Many of you reflected unease and dissociation with the homeless community. There's no question the cycle of poverty is continuous and makes it difficult to pinpoint a root, but I wonder if the reality we seek and the cognitive framework in which we approach this discussion change once we realize that the the one in search of shelter could be you or me someday.
-- UchechiAmadi - 19 Feb 2009 | | | |
|
|
RealityVsUnreality 8 - 19 Feb 2009 - Main.LaurenRosenberg
|
| |
| META TOPICPARENT | name="WebPreferences" |
|---|
When Prof. Moglen was discussing the wide chasm separating between what we know about the penal system and what really transpires behind prison doors, it occurred to me that this divergence between reality and unreality certainly isn't unqiue to the criminal "justice" system, and that the failure to bridge that gap often leads to a distorted understanding of human behavior in other contexts as well. In the case of the penal system, we witness some alarming absurdities: the father who thinks jail time will "shape up" his son, the politician who pads his resume with convictions, the prosecutor whose political ties pervert her duties as a public servant, and a community which thinks itself safer despite rising rates of incarceration and crime. These symptoms are no doubt worrisome, but I believe the same social forces operate in other cases as well. | | | On your second point, sometimes roses do grow from concrete, all too often society kills them before they have a chance to grow, but I'm glad you do acknowledge that they can break the cycles of poverty. I think it’s good to strike a balance between acknowledging the circumstances that lead to undesirable behaviors but also to avoid throwing pity parties that are detrimental to an empowered mindset. | |
>
> | -- JamilaMcCoy - 19 Feb 2009 | | | | |
>
> | I agree that homelessness is not necessarily a result of "laziness" or "indifference" but I'd like to add that a large percentage of America's homeless people have psychiatric illnesses, such as schizophrenia (not to be confused with Multiple Personality Disorder), bipolar disorder, and a whole host of other psychotic illnesses. Many of these individuals have no idea that they are suffering from psychiatric disorders and certainly no idea that medication can vastly improve their lives. One way to solve the homelessness problem is by trying to fix the root of the problem by providing better health care and better homeless facilities that will allow patients to discuss their situations with a psychiatrist.
-- LaurenRosenberg - 19 Feb 2009 | | | |
|
|
|
|
This site is powered by the TWiki collaboration platform.
All material on this collaboration platform is the property of the contributing authors.
All material marked as authored by Eben Moglen is available under the license terms CC-BY-SA version 4.
|
|