|
WhyArePeopleAfraidOfTalkingAboutRape 11 - 06 Apr 2010 - Main.NovikaIshar
|
| | When we went over rape in our criminal law class, I made a comment about the role gender plays in our society in determining the definition of "rape". While I still believe in the truth of my comment, I realized immediately that I had not made any friends because of it. I could hear whispers around me and I knew that many thought I had crossed some sort of line. My comment was fairly benign, but many of my classmates still saw it as insensitive and possible chauvinistic.
I am not writing this to try to vindicate my comment. My frustration is because the topic of rape was such an emotional issue that there was no room, even within the halls of an academic institution as prestigious as Columbia Law School, to discuss the topic in an academic manner. I felt like even considering defending the side of the alleged rapist was an obvious taboo, something to be hidden like an unconscious racist assumption. The law is supposed to be inherently unemotional, but people refuse to treat it as such when discussing this specific topic. | | | I understand your point to be that society's genderized perception of rape makes it harder for men that have experienced real trauma to seek redress without being disregarded or an object of laughter. Unfortunately, neither of your examples support that point. Neither Vince Vaughn nor your friends experienced the emotional trauma that rape causes. Hence, your examples trivialized what you were trying to get across and perhaps led people to misinterpret your comment.
-- JohnAlbanese - 06 Apr 2010 | |
>
> |
-- NovikaIshar - 06 Apr 2010
I do agree with Mike in that rape is a particularly difficult topic of discussion to engage people in, although our crim law professor has chosen to skip over the subject entirely (which may be a statement in itself). Although our brief conversations when rape has come up haven't been particularly controversial, I've noticed that people tend to use male as the default gender of the perpetrator and, of course, female as the default victim. While this may be a reflection of crime statistics (of which I'm not aware) or not an issue for concern, I do find it interesting that this type of consistent pronoun usage only comes up in discussing the felony of rape, rather than murder, for instance. This is especially noticeable in date rape (your example about drinking) and statutory rape cases, though anyone who watches the news will tell you enough female teachers have committed the latter crime. Furthermore, prison rapes are a pervasive concern, with the rate of HIV infection on the rise, but this type of rape is often depicted as a comical scenario in the media, i.e. dropping the soap- although the U.S. is still more progressive than countries like Scotland and Brazil, which still only recognize rape as a male on female crime. Maybe this goes to what Prof. Liebman was saying about the law being concerned with targeting stranger crimes along class lines, which would certainly explain why rape prosecutions are so racialized.
-- NovikaIshar - 06 Apr 2010 | | | |
|
|
WhyArePeopleAfraidOfTalkingAboutRape 10 - 06 Apr 2010 - Main.JohnAlbanese
|
| | When we went over rape in our criminal law class, I made a comment about the role gender plays in our society in determining the definition of "rape". While I still believe in the truth of my comment, I realized immediately that I had not made any friends because of it. I could hear whispers around me and I knew that many thought I had crossed some sort of line. My comment was fairly benign, but many of my classmates still saw it as insensitive and possible chauvinistic.
I am not writing this to try to vindicate my comment. My frustration is because the topic of rape was such an emotional issue that there was no room, even within the halls of an academic institution as prestigious as Columbia Law School, to discuss the topic in an academic manner. I felt like even considering defending the side of the alleged rapist was an obvious taboo, something to be hidden like an unconscious racist assumption. The law is supposed to be inherently unemotional, but people refuse to treat it as such when discussing this specific topic. | | | -- JohnAlbanese - 05 Apr 2010
Please explain, I don't understand why my comment was trivializing. | |
>
> |
I understand your point to be that society's genderized perception of rape makes it harder for men that have experienced real trauma to seek redress without being disregarded or an object of laughter. Unfortunately, neither of your examples support that point. Neither Vince Vaughn nor your friends experienced the emotional trauma that rape causes. Hence, your examples trivialized what you were trying to get across and perhaps led people to misinterpret your comment.
-- JohnAlbanese - 06 Apr 2010 | | | |
|
|
WhyArePeopleAfraidOfTalkingAboutRape 9 - 05 Apr 2010 - Main.MikeAbend
|
| | When we went over rape in our criminal law class, I made a comment about the role gender plays in our society in determining the definition of "rape". While I still believe in the truth of my comment, I realized immediately that I had not made any friends because of it. I could hear whispers around me and I knew that many thought I had crossed some sort of line. My comment was fairly benign, but many of my classmates still saw it as insensitive and possible chauvinistic.
I am not writing this to try to vindicate my comment. My frustration is because the topic of rape was such an emotional issue that there was no room, even within the halls of an academic institution as prestigious as Columbia Law School, to discuss the topic in an academic manner. I felt like even considering defending the side of the alleged rapist was an obvious taboo, something to be hidden like an unconscious racist assumption. The law is supposed to be inherently unemotional, but people refuse to treat it as such when discussing this specific topic. | | | The problem I have is that people whispered their disagreement rather than voicing it directly to you. I think your point that rape is inherently gendered is valid, but you trivialize it by using the two examples of beer goggles and a Vince Vaughn movie. This is what probably lead to the whispering rather than the topic of rape itself.
-- JohnAlbanese - 05 Apr 2010 | |
>
> | Please explain, I don't understand why my comment was trivializing. | | | |
|
|
WhyArePeopleAfraidOfTalkingAboutRape 8 - 05 Apr 2010 - Main.JohnAlbanese
|
| | When we went over rape in our criminal law class, I made a comment about the role gender plays in our society in determining the definition of "rape". While I still believe in the truth of my comment, I realized immediately that I had not made any friends because of it. I could hear whispers around me and I knew that many thought I had crossed some sort of line. My comment was fairly benign, but many of my classmates still saw it as insensitive and possible chauvinistic.
I am not writing this to try to vindicate my comment. My frustration is because the topic of rape was such an emotional issue that there was no room, even within the halls of an academic institution as prestigious as Columbia Law School, to discuss the topic in an academic manner. I felt like even considering defending the side of the alleged rapist was an obvious taboo, something to be hidden like an unconscious racist assumption. The law is supposed to be inherently unemotional, but people refuse to treat it as such when discussing this specific topic. | | | -- NonaFarahnik - 05 Apr 2010 | |
<
< | The problem I have with your story is not that people were emotional about rape. I agree with Matt in that law is a codification of values and criminal law leads to stronger emotions because criminal law, in general, has stronger consequences than property or contracts. It would frighten me if people could talk about something as violent and invasive as rape without getting emotional. | >
> | The problem I have with your story is not that people were emotional about rape. I agree with Matt in that law is a codification of values, and criminal law leads to stronger emotions because criminal law, in general, has harsher consequences than property or contracts. It would frighten me if people could talk about something as violent and invasive as rape without getting emotional. | | | | |
<
< | The problem is that people whispered their disagreement rather than voicing it directly to you. I think your point that rape is inherently gendered is valid, but you trivialize it by using the two examples of "beer goggles" and a Vince Vaughn movie. | >
> | The problem I have is that people whispered their disagreement rather than voicing it directly to you. I think your point that rape is inherently gendered is valid, but you trivialize it by using the two examples of beer goggles and a Vince Vaughn movie. This is what probably lead to the whispering rather than the topic of rape itself. | | | -- JohnAlbanese - 05 Apr 2010
|
|
|
WhyArePeopleAfraidOfTalkingAboutRape 7 - 05 Apr 2010 - Main.JohnAlbanese
|
| | When we went over rape in our criminal law class, I made a comment about the role gender plays in our society in determining the definition of "rape". While I still believe in the truth of my comment, I realized immediately that I had not made any friends because of it. I could hear whispers around me and I knew that many thought I had crossed some sort of line. My comment was fairly benign, but many of my classmates still saw it as insensitive and possible chauvinistic.
I am not writing this to try to vindicate my comment. My frustration is because the topic of rape was such an emotional issue that there was no room, even within the halls of an academic institution as prestigious as Columbia Law School, to discuss the topic in an academic manner. I felt like even considering defending the side of the alleged rapist was an obvious taboo, something to be hidden like an unconscious racist assumption. The law is supposed to be inherently unemotional, but people refuse to treat it as such when discussing this specific topic. | | | Mike, I also noticed that your comment in class engendered some sort of reaction. As we discussed last class, taboos are hard. I agree that it is extremely uncomfortable to talk about certain aspects of sex and race. I have some stuff to say, but I don't even feel comfortable writing them here.
-- NonaFarahnik - 05 Apr 2010 | |
>
> |
The problem I have with your story is not that people were emotional about rape. I agree with Matt in that law is a codification of values and criminal law leads to stronger emotions because criminal law, in general, has stronger consequences than property or contracts. It would frighten me if people could talk about something as violent and invasive as rape without getting emotional.
The problem is that people whispered their disagreement rather than voicing it directly to you. I think your point that rape is inherently gendered is valid, but you trivialize it by using the two examples of "beer goggles" and a Vince Vaughn movie.
-- JohnAlbanese - 05 Apr 2010 | | | |
|
|
|
|
This site is powered by the TWiki collaboration platform.
All material on this collaboration platform is the property of the contributing authors.
All material marked as authored by Eben Moglen is available under the license terms CC-BY-SA version 4.
|
|