I'm actually really glad no one used the words "duty" or "responsibility" in their introductory statements. I don't believe in the concept of altruism. No one does anything from which they don't benefit and I'm glad that no one decided to declare him or herself a martyr for society. If being self-sacrificing makes you feel good, then you are benefiting from your "altruistic" act. One should commit his or her life to something they love, something that brings joy. Doing something out of guilt (which is how I see "duty") will not bring you joy or self-satisfaction in life and ultimately, you can't be truly committed or good at something you do with a groan. -- KateVershov - 24 Jan 2008

IMHO:
The desire to fulfill a duty is not the desire to be a self sacrificing martyr. To say the converse implies that a duty has been imposed upon you (by yourself or others) in the absence of or separate from a debt or expected benefit; that you have received nothing in exchange for the requested services defining the duty. I'm uncomfortable with throwing around the word never, but generally, this is not the case. People fulfill duties, as you say, because they have or will receive a benefit compared to the effect of not fulfilling the duty.

Some examples of what I mean: People better the community because the community provided them opportunities and they want to give back (or want to enjoy living in an improved community). People feel a duty to support their elderly mother because they received the benefit of her influence in their lives.

You sort of say this by stating that people always benefit from their actions, even if the benefit is just that they feel good, but then you seem to say that fulfilling duties is mutually exclusive from doing something you love and brings joy, and that being duty oriented implies you are motivated by guilt? Do you mean that obligations you fulfill in exchange for some benefit are mislabeled and not actually duties - that a true duty is a service provided with absolutely no benefit received? If so, can you provide an example of a duty?

So far though, I don't understand the jump to guilt, unhappiness, and groaning. However, it seems like we may just have different definitions of the term duty. I don't mean to pointlessly argue semantics .

-- MakalikaNaholowaa - 24 Jan 2008

Kate criticizes altruism, and declarations of altruism. I at least won't fault someone who won't declare it. Someone who says "I want to do good" is the functional equivalent of one who says "I feel a duty/responsibility to do good." Functionally, we'll be happier doing good when we we "want" to do it rather than when society imposes it as a "duty." By shifting the rhetoric from society to the individual, America educates us to be self-sustaining do-gooders.

Risk is a question for another post.

-- AndrewGradman - 24 Jan 2008

Tangent: dangit! Gradman - I mean this in a way that will hopefully make you laugh, not offend you, but you are like a benchmark - when I noticed that your response was about a quarter of the length of mine, I felt like I'd failed Eben's challenge to write more succinctly and with brevity.

-- MakalikaNaholowaa - 24 Jan 2008

Haha fear not Makalika, no one is immune

Will the first person who finds this dialogue distracting, plz delete it. I like my chitchat private.

-- AndrewGradman - 24 Jan 2008