"If the point was to get us to ask ourselves what we want, then I think the discussion is unnecessary."

I disagree with this comment in the sense that asking ourselves what we want is the first step. You might be thinking long and hard about all your different options, but maybe others aren't being as open about their options. A lot of people in law school seem to feel as if they have "no choice." If you want to do EIP, go to a big firm, work on M&As, securities, etc., go for it. Have fun, challenge yourself, go nuts... I would wish you luck and support you 100 % (whatever that would be worth ) The issue is that too many people seem to be saying, "I don't want to, but there's no other options."

I don't buy it. With all the different paths (and an LRAP that guarantees you AT LEAST 50K after loans), we probably have more career options than 99 % of the country. Personally, I'm skipping EIP next fall, not because Eben told us it sucks or because it makes me feel like I'm different or rebellious. There simply aren't any jobs that I want being offered at EIP, and so when I booked my plane tickets in February, I didn't worry about scheduling my return flight for August 28th. I have an idea of the places where I want to work, and the kinds of work they do. It's still a broad idea, but I know enough that it doesn't involve work at a firm that does EIP.

The first step is to ask, "what do I want." I think that's why Eben started the course with the question of why we came here. Once we answer that, we have to ask what that means. If you put what you want out there, you can start to have a discussion about what you'll need to accomplish that specific "what." Until you ask (and to some extent answer) that question, though, I don't think anyone (including yourself) can really offer you help.

-- ChristopherBuerger - 14 Apr 2008

Julian, this may sound odd, but about the only suggestion I have is to try not to develop preconceived notions about what you think you want or don't want. Preconceived notions about what you want or don't want in an industry you know little about can only lead to disappointment and forced value assessments. The time when you are in the actual job is the time when you FIND what you want and don't want. And the two summer experiences will give you a jump-start on that. All you know right now is that you want to be a lawyer and you know where you'll be working this summer. That's enough. I'd love to hear in September how your summer went and what you learned from the experience.

Since you mentioned others in class with legal experience, for whatever it's worth, my husband is currently a partner in a Midwest firm. He got his undergrad and law degrees here in the East, and during that time he found out enough about the East Coast market to high-tail it back to Indiana when the time came. I'm sure he'd say he has no regrets.

-- BarbPitman - 14 Apr 2008

Andrew: I didn't see the caption to this thread nor did I find a place on the Wiki where i thought this conversation would be more appropriate. Perhaps you could link in your next comment to the appropriate page and copy/paste the relevant comments there.

Barb: I think what you're saying about autonomy is extremely true. To an extent all the questions/criteria are subjective valuations we need to make for ourselves.

Also, I'd like to think the answer is within myself but then I don't see the point to discussing these questions in class. Is the point to make us think about what we actually want? I know I thought long and hard about what I wanted to get from my career before this class. I don't think I'm unique in that regard.

What I was hoping to get from this class is information/solutions routes to my questions and desires. If the point was to get us to ask ourselves what we want, then I think the discussion is unnecessary. And as much as we may be able to learn from each other, most of us have no real knowledge of what it is like to be a lawyer, let alone an autonomous one.

There are a few people in the class who have spent time as paralegals, or with sufficient familial knowledge on law practice who may be able to shed some light on this. But even then that knowledge is limited and secondhand, if it is relevant at all.

-- JulianBaez - 14 Apr 2008

Oops, sorry, my fault, although in my defense, the following sentence was ambiguous to me, because I couldn't figure out which thread was "this thread": "This horizontal line separates this thread, where I attempt to permit us to collaborate to attempt to frame questions about how to become lawyers that we can carry with us for the next two years..." In other words, I thought you were ticking off a total of three threads in everything you wrote, when I guess you were referring to only two.

-- BarbPitman - 14 Apr 2008

Julian, I think the answers you are looking for are within you. Hope I don't make you self-conscious here, but after reading your paper about your experience in looking for summer employment, I realize that your go-getter attitude and energy will direct you as close as anyone to that equilibrium that you're looking for while pursuing the four criteria you listed. None or little of this may come with the first job or the second, though. But you'll keep looking. As I hope you know, all life is an experiment.

Just one thing about #4 -- I think this is a spectrum issue, which means that different people have different definitions of autonomy and hence different tolerances, needs, and wants in this area. I gather you are getting the concept of autonomy from Eben's lectures -- I may be wrong, but Eben projects a large amount of autonomy in his working life (we really shade into control issues here), so when he talks about autonomy, he may be talking about a whole different degree or type of autonomy than would fit you. All this by way of saying, I would look at autonomy as an open-ended proposition, and not get stuck on the idea that flat-out autonomy in every facet of a job is the only thing that will make you happy.

-- BarbPitman - 14 Apr 2008

I can't snuffle the will of the people, but wouldn't it make more sense not to use a thread whose caption says "don't use this thread?"

Or will the people speak, and snuffle the caption?

-- AndrewGradman - 14 Apr 2008